Legislature(2003 - 2004)
03/04/2004 09:05 AM House CRA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 308-EXCHANGE PUBLIC LAND FOR STREAM BANK LAND CHAIR MORGAN announced that the final order of business would be HOUSE BILL NO. 308, "An Act related to exchanging public land for privately held riverbank and stream bank lands." Number 2436 REPRESENTATIVE LES GARA, Alaska State Legislature, sponsor of HB 308, explained that this legislation was spurred in part by his interest in fishing and also in part from his realization that many of the riverbanks are privately owned, although they appear to be public. For those familiar with the Matanuska Susitna Valley and the Kenai Peninsula, popular streams such as Montana Creek, Willow Creek, and Anchor River are privately held. Among the land that Alaskan outdoors people cherish the most are the riverbanks. The moment those are sold and public access along the state's rivers are lost, a large part of Alaska is lost. He pointed out that this situation exists throughout Alaska. Therefore, the fishing community has held discussions regarding what to do to preserve public access along the state's riverbanks. If these lands are developed, the [state] will never get them back. For example, Montana devotes about $300,000 a year toward repurchasing private land. Something proactive should be done before the problem occurs, he said. However, it should be voluntary so that it doesn't impact the rights of property owners and it also keeps the cost down. Therefore, the thought was to allow the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) and Alaska Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G) to offer land trades. The departments could identify important fishing areas with private parcels that are undeveloped and offer those property owners land trades of other state land. REPRESENTATIVE GARA noted that the fiscal notes from DNR and ADF&G are much higher than he though they would be. Therefore, he said that he would like to work with the agencies so that the statute could be reworked. He noted that he has requested a ranking of different areas of the state and different fishing streams in order of priority with the top priority being those streams for which the public would want unfettered public access. The prioritization process would be expensive, and therefore he opined that such an approach would have to be dumped. Therefore, Representative Gara proposed working with the departments to develop legislation with a minor or zero fiscal note while maintaining the concept. REPRESENTATIVE GARA acknowledged that HB 308 and its large fiscal note can't pass out of committee. To the extent the committee likes the legislation, there are two options. One option is for the committee to report the legislation out of committee and leave it to the sponsor to do it without a large fiscal note. The other option is for the committee to hold the legislation. In either case, Representative Gara announced that he would work with both departments in order to accomplish the same goal. Number 2717 REPRESENTATIVE WOLF pointed out that the Kenai River Center has been doing much work with regard to mapping and categorizing all the wetlands surrounding the anadromous systems. He specified that the Kenai River Center and Kenai Peninsula Borough has a database [of property owners]. Representative Wolf expressed concern with regard to the fiscal note and other aspects of the legislation for which he wanted to work on an amendment. REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELS asked, "Are you talking public lands anywhere, ... you [are] telling the commissioner to ... make a deal, don't make a bad deal." REPRESENTATIVE GARA replied yes, noting that if it isn't a good deal, there won't be a trade. He noted that he had been thinking of allowing a trade for property that is valued at up to 10 percent more. Representative Gara specified that this legislation isn't talking about taking a lot of property out of the private domain because the department could just negotiate for easements, which the state already does. Currently, when the state gives away property, it preserves an excess of 50 feet to and along a fishing stream. However, that wasn't the case prior to 1976. Additionally, for much federal land and certain state land conveyances [the 50 foot easement] was not preserved. Therefore, there is much land along rivers [and streams] that are purely private property and will some day be privately developed. REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELS inquired as to how much of the land [surrounding streams/rivers in Southcentral Alaska] is in private hands. REPRESENTATIVE GARA pointed out that the state doesn't have a good land title system outside the municipality, and therefore each time there is a question of ownership research is required. For example, Montana Creek [in Southcentral Alaska] has very large sections of private land and people aren't aware of it because there is almost no development along the creek. He estimated that 25-30 percent of the land surrounding the Salcha and Anchor Rivers is private property. Representative Gara confirmed that he was referring to land above the high water mark. REPRESENTATIVE WOLF noted that on the Kenai Peninsula there is a 50-foot setback for habitat protection, which means no structures or development in that area. CHAIR MORGAN highlighted that most of the property on the riverbank is more valuable than that farther from the river. He asked if the trade would be dollar for dollar or acreage for acreage. REPRESENTATIVE GARA answered that the trade is based on the value of the land. TAPE 04-9, SIDE B REPRESENTATIVE GARA said that he is intrigued by a trade in which the property owner could trade for land that is of equal value [or] up to 10 percent more in value. REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELS commented that the down side of such is the negotiating position because if up to 10 percent more in value is allowed, then that will be given. Number 2957 REPRESENTATIVE KOTT inquired as to the location of the language that requires the land exchange to be of equal value. It seems that the state shouldn't restrict the commissioner from making a determination of what has to be negotiated. Representative Kott related his dislike of including "up to 10 percent" language because he would prefer to leave it up to the commissioner. However, he opined that it would take more than an equal exchange to entice him, if he were an owner of riverbank land, to trade. REPRESENTATIVE GARA clarified [that the up to 10 percent value of the trade] is an assumption. He pointed out that the land trade language is located in Section 2 on page 2. Section 2 provides the commissioner of [ADF&G] the power to exchange. Although the language doesn't specify that the land being exchanged has to be of equal value, the property owner will probably only trade if the land is of equal value. Representative Gara acknowledged that under this language the commissioner would probably have the ability to trade something more valuable for something less valuable. If the desire is to allow the aforementioned, then language to that effect should be added. Number 2857 REPRESENTATIVE WOLF inquired as to the percentage of land that is part of the flood plain on the Anchor River. DOUG VINCENT-LANG, Assistant Director, Division of Sport Fish, Alaska Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G), replied that he would get an answer for the committee. REPRESENTATIVE GARA said that he has a map of the lower section of the Anchor River that specifies where there is public easement and where there isn't. Number 2807 CHAIR MORGAN announced that he would hold HB 308 to allow the sponsor to work with the Department of Natural Resources and the Alaska Department of Fish & Game on the fiscal note. REPRESENTATIVE KOTT expressed his hope that Representative Wolf would also work with Representative Gara. He also expressed the need for the sponsor to work to reduce the rather hefty fiscal note of HB 308. CHAIR MORGAN announced that he ultimately intends to move HB 308 from committee, but is going to provide the sponsor time to work on the fiscal note.
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